I fully admit to being a product of my time, a child of my culture, a biased observer and proud proponent of American exceptionalism. I own an unapologetic, arrogant belief that I live in the greatest country on the face of this globe and I hold a full rack of politically incorrect attitudes. Hell, I piss off my best friends on a regular basis, I’m certainly not going to tiptoe around the Muslims today.
My perceptions of the Middle East, Northern Africa, South Central Asia and the Muslims who live there have been definitively shaped by four key events, the Iranian hostage crisis, the Beirut Barracks bombing, the battle of Mogadishu and 9/11. The countless dozens of other Islamic terrorist events and wars that have occurred across that span of intervening years have certainly solidified my antipathy towards the people of those regions in general and their religion in particular. Setting aside the theological for a moment, I have seen little persuasive evidence that would support the reigning compassionate theory that these people, on whole, contain even the most basic capacity to live anywhere near the prevailing cultural neighborhood of the last century. Their indigenous cultural beliefs seem bereft of any impetus to move past the mindless mandates issued by their pedophiliac prophet.
The oil rich countries have attained some internal stability through wealth and iron clad monarchial or theocratic rule. They’ve developed the finer tastes for luxury goods and western universities but they still manage to run their resource rich countries on a largely imported foreign workforce and pure slave labor. They treat their women and children as chattel, scoff at innate human rights and routinely call for the extermination of Israel at the UN. Hell, if Muslims fielded madrassa football teams, the rebel yell would be “Kill The Jews!”
These nations export their uneducated, starving, fundamentalist underclass to the western world when they aren’t busy brutalizing these lower castes into masses of seething resentment, while fully indoctrinating their privileged sons into the cockpits of suicide planes and supporting the godless work of funding financiers who broker the realms of mass murder. The men who rule these nations conveniently sidestep the norms they enforce, hiding behind palatial walls of privilege and diplomatic immunity in the West.
These Arab elites practice a barbaric legal code that wouldn’t pass any sniff test of modern due process. The criminal codes condemning consensual sexual behavior alone are beyond the pale. The routine imprisonment, torture, rape, stoning and hangings of such benign sexual deviants as homosexuals, adulterers, rape victims and courting singles is beyond appalling. I won’t even bring up impoverished debtors, cloaked women or the routine selling of prepubescent children into marriage or slavery.
Paint as much Chanel lipstick as you like on this ripe Arab pig, no sane man would escort this syphilitic seepage of a rotting sow to the ball and defend its honor. Peel away the Mercedes sedans and couture clothing, strip off the fine degrees and gilt trappings, you’ll find that you’re still dealing with the implacable face of an ancient world, one perfectly comfortable with a wealth of barbaric practices that holds no truck with our modern sensibilities.
The lesser nations, the poor Sunni brethren of the high caste Gulf nations, are little more than sentient animals. The Shia don’t score much better. The North African Muslims are a disgusting miasma of humanity at its worst and Afghanistan seems to be a place suspended in a time out of mind. We are fighting people who live in mud huts, hide in caves, expect abysmal poverty and subsistence living to be the norm.
In Afghanistan we’re fighting a country full of rampant illiterate ignorance, gross pederasty, common rape, graft, official corruption and the easy brutality of humanity. Tribal allegiances of long dead centuries rule these regions, commanding generations of witless men soaked in the religious cesspool of a static, backwards culture that refuses to break the mold, scared of committing apostasy or offending the neighboring goatherd. If these people were more afraid of the power cutting out than obeying a book they can’t even read, we might stand a chance of inserting a fucking clue or two of decency into their lives.
Acquiring cell phones, Indian porn, billions in squandered foreign aid and the attention of our elite Marines in a landscape covered by roadside IED’s does not make one functionally modern. These people haven’t even figured out how to build a basic outhouse or use something other than their left hand to wipe their ass and we’re going to help them build a dynamic economic engine based on our liberal democratic platforms of rule of law and capitalistic theory? Give me a break, when they aren’t smoking hash and drinking chai, they spend hours each day on their knees, heads pointed towards Mecca or indulging in their favorite sport of Allah endorsed child rape, that is when they aren’t instructing their fair charges to detonate themselves in the local market. It’s time to go Ghengis Khan on their foul ass or cut bait.
I have no patience, much less tolerance, for their rigid, simple minded, religiously inept rhetoric or geopolitical high stakes games. I have no respect for these willfully difficult people who can’t seem to cope with simple realities. You can shove that islamaphobe label about to sputter out of your liberal mouth straight up your tight ass. I’m not afraid, I am contemptuous and full of anger. I’m damned tired of seeing my relatives and countrymen wade into that pit of vile ignorance that has spurred decades of innocent bloodshed. I am past the point of compassionate understanding or rational discussion. I am way beyond the realm of cutting any slack for that sorry excuse of a religion who’s been the explosive banner boy for so much global misery.
I’m expected to treat these folks with respectful parity? Not happening.
Other than all those things you mentioned, they make fine neighbours.
(Oh wait, I was thinking of mentally deranged, psychopathic killers)
Yours is what I would call “the enlightened position” on the matter.
Apologetics to the contrary are but varying degrees of smoke, mirrors, lies and deceit.
I stand in respect to the rightness of your thoughts, the brilliance of your thoughts and the precision of your words.
Well done!
Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX
“the enlightened position”
Heh. Truer words.
I was reading today about an ambush some of our Marines and their Afghan counterparts ran into the other day. We’re not allowed to do anything that might put civilians in danger, of course, so our troops watched women and children running ammunition out to the AQ fighters.
I think we can win in Afghanistan. I think we can win in Iraq. I have serious doubt about the current administration’s will to do so. I’m afraid that the president is going to piddle along, not giving the commanders enough resources to win. Why should he care? It’s not like anyone he knows is fighting over there.
The more I think about it, the more I think we made a terrible mistake after 9/11. We went after a bunch of yo-yo’s in caves. We should have simply dropped a nuke on the grand mosque in Mecca and said: don’t even think of bombing an American city again.
I’m not of a mind to paint all of Islam with the broad brush of “Psychotics, all.” Still and even… I long for the day when moderate Muslims (if there is such a thing) rise up and condemn the radical Islamists. SN1 and I had such a discussion on the eve of his departure for Kandahar, and we both agree that Islam is in dire need of a modern day Martin Luther… one who would nail the equivalent of “95 Theses” to the wall of Masjid al-Haram. If ever there was a major religion in need of reformation… it is Islam, beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Not knowing what he was, I once had a date with a muslim. After a routine dinner, I was informed that previously married Christian women were fatally soiled and less than garbage; also that I owed the purchaser of my dinner several named acts of perversion, after which of course he would never speak to my besmirched self again.
He even described how in the future, glorious memories of being used by one of allah’s warriors would be a consolation to me in my miserable and pointless old age.
Thereupon commenced some yelling and struggling at the door to the elevator of my building. A security guard – and two guys who happened to come out of the stairway at that moment – were treated to a short lecture on the divine religious rights of muslim men, along with a few attempted pokes from a cheap little knife.
Incredulous, they shoved the bum out the door and into the path of the cops who had arrived to arrest him.
After that, every time I hear of some violent, obscene outrage from the “religion of peace” I remember the sense of absolute entitlement in that … thing’s … voice. The rule of law, protection of the weak, human decency? Far below the notice of the lords of creation…
It’s not too late to bomb Mecca into radioactive rubble. Islam is a cancer on humanity, and radical surgery is required.
There’s been a void in honest appraisals of Islam since Oriana Fallaci died. Thank you Daphne. You just filled it.
Well done.
WOW! To judge so many by the actions of so few is, to say the least, disturbing. You all just sound like a bunch of bitter, misinformed, close-minded fools. With this outlook, hope of improving our world and the situations of the people in it, seem dismal at best. You’re no better than the very people you take such pleasure in hating.
I suspected the U.S would not have the stones to deal appropriately with Islam when, just days after 9-11, a muslim cleric soiled the National Cathederal in Washington D.C. with his presence and Koran reading during the memorial service. As long as congressional committees and sub-committees are having the Generals appear before them, to make certain they are fighting this war in an approved manner, …..well, you know the rest. I wonder what Ike and MacArthur would have said to Barbara Boxer.
Hey Lori, you don’t even have to move to afghanistan, iran, saudi arabia…you can spend some time in paris or london. Or Minneapolis.
“The actions of so few…”
Did you even read the above post? Have you followed history for the past 30 years? Are you aware of what islam has done since 700 AD?
Ignorance is not bliss, it is suicide in this case.
And don’t take the rest of us over the cliff with you.
Well said and accurate. One of my former lieutenants when I was an infantry company commander, now in special forces, has served a couple of tours in Afghanistan. His comments, from four years ago were similiar, about the Afghans and their culture. They are from and stone age and have no desire to change.
The only think these people understand is “total war”–the kind General Sherman fought in the Civil War on his march through Georgia. The US used to have the balls for this type of necessary warfare, but the liberals have emasculated (most) of our leadership and society.
Drop a few tactical nukes (not the big stuff) in the deep valleys of Afghanistan, where the bad guys are burrowed in, and their attitude will change. Plus, Budweiser will have a cheap supply of glass for years to come.
Lori–Let’s see how you and Nancy Pelois look in a burka, living in a cattle pen, married at 13, seven kids by 21, beaten periodically, and with no education. That’s a life to aspire for–go marry a Muslim. Even better, then move to an Arab country.
Look at the long picture of history, not just your 20year UN colored lense.
Well said! Regarding the nuking of the grand mosque in Mecca – good idea, but it should be the biggest and dirtiest we can build. In that way as they kneel five times a day they wouldn’t need a compass, but to just look to that radioactive glow on the far horizon.
“Fuck with us will ya?”
(sorry, I watched the towers come down across the river from where I live. I guess I haven’t gotten over it.)
Again, nicely said. Thanks.
Fat Man –
While I loathe the thought of using nuclear weapons, I am slowly starting to think that you might have a point.
Several years ago, I saw an interview with the amazing Ayan Hirsa Ali, the Somali woman who became a politican in Europe and has warned about the encroachment of Islam. During the interview, she argued that we should have gone straight into Saudi Arabia.
At the time, I wasn’t sure what to think. But now, I see that there can be virtue in controlled ruthlessness when it comes to nipping problems from hell right in the bud.
Deana
Well don’t hold back there, Daphne, we wanna know what you really think.
There is much truth in what you say. But ultimately we are much more decent people than that, and it is our Christian Heritage that makes us so, though many deny it.
I have read enough of the Qu’ran and Haddiths to realize that this will never be a religion of peace as long as non-muslims exist.
Oh, they may lay low and be quiet for periods of time, but it will always be a … no pun intended … an unstable bomb liable to go off at any moment, no matter how many good Muslims there may be in the world.
Your words are so powerful. The analysis of muslims and their evil ways is right on target. I will be keeping this piece for future reference.
Saudi Arabia is the wellspring for this madness. Most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi’s and all were poisoned by the hateful islamic philosophy produced and paid for by Saudi oil wealth. GWB had his own reasons for sucking up to the saudi’s and we’ve already seen BHO bow down to the saudi king!!!! So he won’t be doing the right thing anytime soon.
Well written! Good comments, save for those like Lori. She has her opinion. Fine. But this nation, built on Christianity, has fought it’s own civil war, engaged in others, and we are still the world leader in most other nations eyes. So why is it, I agree with all of the above comments, yet our government leaders sit on their hands and posture for the camers? This is the U.S.A. and I for one am damn proud of this fact! Make your voices heard. Loud and clear. I’m sick of politics were there’s no voice of the common person talked about. What ever happend to…of – by – and for, the people??!! Nuke ‘em. Let God sort them out. That’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it. Press 1 for english my a**!!!! Learn it before you get here. If I EVER entertained the remote thought of moving to a different country, I think I’d learn how to communicate first. Pretty essential don’t you think? God Bless our troops and this nation.
Lori, Sorry to disappoint, but I haven’t flown a plane into a building recently. Haven’t cut the head of a living thing recently. Haven’t destroyed a religious symbol recently. Haven’t stoned a woman lately. Haven’t strapped a bomb on a kid in recent memory. I guess I have led a sheltered Roman Catholic American life. Oh well…..there’s always hope for the future.
Bullseye.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yfvab4
Islam is a socio-political way of life and the self styled extremists have taken over the show and peddle that with gusto.
It has successfully blended a nice stinking cocktail of motivations for it’s key demographic – young males – from politics, humiliation, revenge, retaliation and altruism. It plays a vital role in the recruitment and motivation of potential future suicide bombers and plays on that almost exclusively male angst wrapped up in vengeance, pride and a yearning for respect where none is fucking due. In the West those factors are empty and pathetic, given the distinct lack of any grievance facilitated to that end here. I dismiss those stupid men and their yearning for respect where none is due for the self-styled gangsta boys that they are, with a happy slew of bints such as those in the picture of Daphne’s post willingly playing along to the male psyche, as molls and flatterers thinking they look fierce. They look like what they value themselves as. As Ayaan Hirsi Ali put it: Giant walking vaginas. I find all gang culture consists in nothing more than jerk boy-men wannabees acting out delusional fantasies with a string of ugly pouting hoes in tow. They get lucky here on occasion but I’ll be damned if they figure on sticking the black flag of Islam over us “kuffars” in Ten Downing Street as they claimed in Harrow last week (Lori sweetie – kuffar is racist, where’s your WOW now?). Seriously. They can fuck off. Ain’t gonna happen.
Outside of our cultures Islam is a key factor in galvanising hatred born of a sense of total national failure. Islam is all about gaining community approval and political success; “liberating the homeland”; achieving personal redemption or honour; refusing to accept perceived subjugation; seeking revenge for perceived personal and collective humiliation; conveying religious or nationalistic convictions as a giant “fuck you” to the West. All of which is down to their own failings as a country, as a people and in the case of the 9/11 fuckfaces, as a jealous far flung reaction to the rest of the world’s successes and their inability to function as normal men in a normal balanced society where men and women are equal. It’s all political religious mumbojumbo to excuse their own massive shortcomings as nations and people. One day they will see who the real enemy is, their religion will enlighten itself back to what it is supposed to be and hell maybe the women there will stand a chance of getting that angry patriarchy bullshit under some kind of control.
The Left would forever have us apologise for the rest of the world’s poverty and inability to stand on it’s own two feet and dress us as racists. I call bullshit. You can patronise and mollycoddle these mysoginist freaks and perpetuate their stupid religion for what it actually isn’t. I won’t. You can call me a racist for hating on communism and nazism. Nonsensical delusional blinkered crap. People like Lori are as stupid as they are contradictory.
Islam isn’t a religion to anyone but a small handful of spiritually minded people. Bad luck them. They can feel as wretched about what happens to their religion as I feel about catholicism when I read about the last Pope’s actions in Kosovo. Time for Islam to grow up. And for other nations to stop wallowing in the mire and get a goddamn grip on their OWN futures.
You hit it out of the ballpark, Alison. That was a grand slam of a comment.
I think the Lori’s of the world would rather not examine the facts of life under sharia – it’s much easier to call people like us mean haters and not have to look at the lives of the people stuck in these theocratic hellholes and the resulting worldwide bloodshed that results from their misery and ignorance.
How could anyone not be appalled at the young virginal women imprisoned for bullshit like apostasy or lacking a proper head covering in Iran who are first raped by guards before being hung to death because it’s against sharia law to kill a virgin?
Or the rape victims getting stoned by crowds in the public square in SA.
Or the widespread marriage of young children to old men in Yemen?
Or the homosexuals who are routinely arrested, tortured, raped and put to death in most Arab states?
Or the butchering of baby girl’s genitals in Egypt, Sudan and Somalia?
Or the children (and simple minded folks) who are doped up, strapped with explosives and detonated in the markets?
Or the widespread use of slaves?
Or the honor killings and acid throwing?
The list of disgusting abominations are endless.
But we’re bigoted, racist, hateful people for noticing the facts and saying it’s awful.
Thanks to all the folks who dropped by from Warrior Talk.
It was pretty damn cool to be linked up by you guys.
Hey Phil, you know I enjoy letting it rip when the mood takes me.
I’m feeling a little ignored since I haven’t gotten a fatwa yet.
I sometimes have little daydreams about what I would do if I was the Benevolent Dictator of America, and 911 happened on my watch…
BOOOM.
you. are. so. wrong.
oh and uhm, they didn’t bomb us. we did.
Nutbag.
That’s a fine opinion there Erin. In fact, it’s such a good opinion that I suggest you might find life living in one of their wonderfully civilized countries to be most beneficial to your health.
They live just like God intended us to live. Women are chattel as they should be, and can be beaten on a whim as long as the stick is no thicker than your thumb. Queers are executed because, after all, they are obviously a corruption of humanity and thus need to be killed. Education is only for men, as long as you remember that all real education comes from the divine word of the Koran and the great prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him, etc, etc…).
Yes, yes, I’m sure you’ll like it.
(or, as our host succinctly puts it… “Nutbag.”)
hey all what you all trying to achiveing accuseing islam
look at yourself how ignorent you all centurys back you all inveded ,surpresed humanity .
checkout the history what it says about west, then talk about others
Harry,
Your “arguments” might be more persuasive if you could actually write a coherent sentence.
As it is your arguments, like your sentences, are sadly lacking.
if you look to history, in 1857 the british had a similar problem regarding religious fanatism in india. the solution was to counter fanatical belief with equal measure of action. if you defile a fanatists religious belief, how so ever abhorrent it may seem in these mordern times, then and only then is it possible to stop this menace. the answer is simple , a fanatist or would be terrorist should realise that even after so called martyredom, he or she will fry in hell, because his/her remains will be defiled in the most horrible way then the hand that strkes, and that which orders/plans the strike will tremble! i think this should be given a try…..
I think the problem of suicide bomber can be instantly and completely stopped with one simple solution:
Imprison (or kill) the family of the suicide bomber.
It’s a horrible solution, I know, but this is a horrible problem, and once the first few families of suicide bombers are wiped out and the result prominently published on Al Jazeera and other prominent new organizations, you’ll see an immediate stop to suicide bombings and no additional family killings will be required.
Again, I’m sensitive to how horrible a solution this is, but if the killing of a few dozen families will stop the killings of thousands more, is not the end justification of the means?
I believe it is the only way to stop the problem short of nuking that entire past of the world.
Too bad civilized people will always stop short of adopting their enemies’ tactics. This weakness will be the end of civilized people in the end.
Buck
Just to comment on Islam’s need for a reformation on the scale of Martin Luther’s reformation of Christianity in the middle ages.
Christianity under a 1000 + years of corrupt leadership had totally compromised large sections of the faith’s foundational teaching and doctrine. The reformation restored these truths and freed Europe and Christianity from a compromised faith.
Islam has in recent years come under great scrutiny as it has begun to make it’s voice heard across the planet for the first time in a really substantial way. The truth is that this has been a direct response to their own reformation. Yes the reformation you long for is under way and it’s voice/s are the Bin Laden’s of the world who are reminding their believers that they have strayed from their founder’s doctrinal foundation.
The blowing up of the world trade centre was a watershed, demonstrative act to galvenise the Muslim faithful and the Islamic wold in general to this truth. Osama nailed his thesis not with pen and paper to a Wittenburg church as Luther did but to two buildings in New York with the blood on innocent people.
What are the individual doctrinal points currently being emphasised and restored by these Islamic reformers. You only need to listen and as you do it will be evident that this reformation is on a uncompromised collison course with Western civilisation. Like Luther’s reformation there simply is not and cannot be any middle ground and conflict is upon us whether we want it or not. Europe erupted into conflict and fought in the middle ages which resulted in the Hundred Year War as people fought to defend the freedoms the reformation demanded. Today Western civilisation has been profoundly built around these hard fought for truths.
This is all under attack right now as I write this. Just a few days ago in Denmark a journalist’s home was broken into by a Muslim with an axe who wanted to kill him for publishing a cartoon. As I looked at links on this article I saw a You Tube video of demonstrations regarding this jounalist in the streets of Copenhagen and apart from all the placards calling for his death was one that went right to the heart of the matter. It simply said “to Hell with freedom of speech”.
In other words to hell with your world view, to hell with your beliefs, to hell with your hard fought freedoms, to hell with all you hold dear, to hell with your enlightned society, to hell with all who get in our way.
This was Muhammed’s method of evangelising the world as history clearly shows that converts were by the edge of the sword and his followers are simply reforming the religion back to it’s roots, to his foundational doctrine. How different this is from Christ who laid down His life out of love and said that His church would grow as His disciples went forward doing the same in a spirit of sacrificial love.
Where Islam is in majority in any country their world view reflects the foundational example of their founder. In the Christian West as compromised as it is it is still a reflection of the teachings of Christ. The contrast is stark and staggering.
How will the Islamic reformation of the world end? What do you think?
wow, it’s crazy to read all these comments – not to mention the article that started it all!
this is not going to be a coherent analysis, but just to pick up a few arguments to show… let’s call them “different points of view”, shall we?
There were some articles mentioning the US as being “the greatest country on earth”, where “freedom of speech” and “rule of law” exist… You gotta be kidding me! The greatest country on earth? By what accounts? It is built on imperialism and genocide. Freedom of speech is obviously a joke, if journalists get fired for criticizing the government (see 9/11 by Michael Moore), or, as Sheryl Crowe put it in an interview: you don’t need to prohibit information. All you need to do is broadcast with hundreds of channels, so people won’t find the news anymore! And she is right, for the US education system is a koje, teaching citizens some basic faculties, and keeping them stupid apart from it (ecxcept for a few honour students, who are so much supported by programs and scholarships that they would never start complaining). Rule of law is just as laughable – honestly, do you really believe that who is right wins in court?! You cannot be srious!
Ok, what else did we have, oh yes: 9/11. It’s funny to see that the world knows it was the US government itself, because they needed a reason to go into Iraque and Afghanistan to secure oil. For until few decades ago, the US government (as well as any other, for that matter) would have just gone there and started a war, pursueing their national interest, but under worldwide media coverage a country decorating itself with titles such as “democratic” and “respecting human rights” can’t do that without loosing its credibility, so what should they do?… And the outcome was as hoped, a whole nation all over sudden supported a war in a far-away country, which otherwise would have been hard to justify… Oh, and I hate to break it to you guys, but the media coverage on the Muslim world, whatever it is that your “enlightenment” comes from, is part of the whole package of selling you something so you will agree with your government’s plans…
and while we’re at it: if you go to another country you should learn the language? Well, I’m sure all those soldiers sent into Iraque, Afghanistan, etc. have taken extensive language courses before going, so that they were able to talk to read those countries’ histories and literature, and then there talk to people and get informed insights… but then again, you’re right, why should they, they have their superiors tell them all about it – for we all know that it’s members of the military who observe a situation critically before going places… Honestly, do you really think an army anything is a useful source of information? The best members of the army are those who think least (except for strategic thinking, granted), question least, just swallow whatever reason is given to them for doing what they are about to do, and taking orders! And prychologically, how do you persuade anyone to fight in a war, risking his or her life, possibly die for something? Oh, I have an idea: you tell them the people you are to fight against are savages, so it doesn’t matter anyways; you tell them they’re following a cruel – and medieval – religion, so what you’re doing is good and right (in the eyes of your own religion, for we all know, some religions are better than others… get the irony? :); you tell them they rape women and slaughter babies (and drink their blood? wow, that sounds familiar from my history books… yes! I believe it has served as excuse for centuries of persecution of Jews! Oh, and for the Christianisation of Europe! Oh, and there again, it’s what was said about the Russians coming in after Germany had lost WW II – funny, isn’t it? Or just a successful recipe for mass motivation of one people against another, and for “righteous” violence…). And if all that doesn’t work, you go and fake an attack on your own country. There, that should do the trick…
And what else, oh yes, the crimes committed in the name of Islam since 700 AD… do we really have to go into detail of that? The crimes committed in the name of Christianity since 700 AD, and even before that? And please don’t come with that reformation-argument. Catholicism is still around as well, is it not?
And honestly, that theses-9/11 comparison, what’s that supposed to be?
Ok, I think I have made part of my point, have I not? The other one is this: Islam, a religion as friendly as Christianity, and as “good” as any other (whatever that means anyways), and the people following it, have been under enormous attack by individuals, mass media in general, and even armies, for some decades now, and it is very understandable that there are people who crumble under that constant pressure, and become extremists – it’s no different with ANY other religion, including Christianity! So if we want to stop it, the wrongest (I know that’s not a word, but it stresses my point better) thing to do is kill families, drop bombs on sacred places, or anything like that! Freedom (from oppressors both domestic AND foreign!), mutual respect and the financial means to live a decent, self-determined life is what has pacified Western Europe and the US. They are the key, not hatred, murder and defamation! And when I am asking to respect other people’s way of living, I don’t mean we have to agree with everything. Female circumcision, acid attacks, stoning, honor killings and the like, are abominable acts in my opinion, too! But if we answer with murder, with oppression and neo-imperialism, how does that make us any better?!?
Plus, don’t you all agree that there are many things in our Western societies going wrong just the same? How many people in the US are without health insurance? How many people in our societies are raped or murdered every day? How many die before their time, due to lack of basic neccessities, food, or for example a strange disease cultivated in our society that makes people stop eating in order to reach some weird dream weight? And noting done about it except private initiatives, because magazines and fashion, make-up and diet pills are such a profitable markets that no big company cares for individual lives ruined?
If you guys are, like me, white, financially well-off, and have been blessed with more or less easy lives and a solid Western education, you have been extremely fortunate, like me. And it is very easy indeed to judge other people less fortunate. For what do we know what poverty, deprivation or oppression do with a man, a woman, a child? I for my part don’t know, and I hope I will never have to find out by self-experience. What about you?
Ok, I’m becoming pathetic now, but there’s a really good book you guys should read: “Orientalism” by Edward Said. Said, born in then-Palestinia and educated in Universities such as Princeton and Harvard, wrote this book, because being in the West he experienced a strange discrepancy between the way “the Orient”, where he, too, came from, was depicted in the media, and what he knew from is own life. He tries to follow the history of what he calls “Orientalism”, a Western science, a field of “knowledge” and writing about an area termed “the Orient”, which for centuries has portrayed that area wrongly, not competely, but concerning many many aspects of it, and he tries to find out why. He originally wrote the book in 1978, but it seems as valid today as it was then – indeed, I find it quite interesting that it was written looong before 9/11 and “the war on terror”! I’ve only just started, but already find it highly interesting, and I can only recommend you do the same openmindedly.
Cheers
ooooookay…
susy, I’m going to go and assume you are just ignorant instead of stone cold crazy or a blatant troll. Ignorance can be cured with education and experience, while crazy cannot be helped.
Any American will likely tell you that the US is far from perfect because it certainly is not. However, no other country in the history of the world has done so much good for so many. Scoff if you like but just try to name one. Take as long as you like, I’ll wait.
Why do I say that? Well take the freedoms that Americans take for granted. Even curtailed as they have been over the last 20 years, America is still one of the freest countries in the world. Consider trying to have a protest anywhere else. Oh sure, some countries you can get away with it – almost all Western or Westernized countries – but in most countries, protests involve a considerable risk to your life.
Americans are still pretty much free to choose how they want to live their lives and where to live their lives. Worldwide, that doesn’t happen very often.
Education? Yes, education is broken, by design, in the US and it certainly needs fixing. Yet, in spite of that the US still leads world research and technology. Name another country that, per capita, produces more new knowledge and technology. Take your time, I can wait.
You mention that the US is founded on imperialism and genocide. Well, yes, and no. Yes, the native populations were very badly affected by the arrival of the Europeans, both by the diseases introduced to the native populations (accidentally) and then later by the wars fought by the Indians and the expanding American states. Genocide? Not in most case, no. Some? Yes, certainly. In return, the American Government has made reparations to the survivors.
However, compare that with any other country. History is filled with pages and pages of civilizations destroying another. Of different human populations wiping out and either killing them off or enslaving them, or both. Every civilization that exists today has almost certainly been the conqueror of another.
Could there have been civilizations that did not? Certainly. Where are they now? Oh, right. I know. They died out when they encountered another civilization that held no such compunctions.
Imperialistic? Now you must be joking. Yes, early America did have some imperialistic adventures (Philippines, China, Cuba, maybe more – I don’t know off the top of my head) but let’s look at the last 100 years. America is unique in the history of the world of being a powerful civilization that did not use its army to conquer the world. America is unique in the history of the world in not keeping the conquered lands, but instead helping those countries after they have been defeated.
Where are the client countries?
Now, if you want an example of imperialism take a look at the UK in the period from 1800 to 1900 when they were the masters of the world. During their height, they were in control of a significant portion of the planet. With their navy, they ruled the seas and many of the lands they could reach and administer. That’s an example of an imperial power. And, as an imperial power, the UK was relatively benign. There have been worse. Much worse. Take, for example the Byzantine Empire. Read up. I’ll wait.
You seem to have the opinion that the host and commenters here are overly harsh in their depiction of muslim states. You also appear to believe this is because of lop sided media coverage covering only the bad and none of the good.
Ok, let’s deal with that. Name one muslim country that is not a backwards, corrupt, miserable dung pile. Take your time. Look them up, list them and tell me which one does not match my blanket description. I’ll wait.
If you make a list, I’d bet that Iran makes the list. Iran is a relatively modern muslim country with decent technology and one of the highest standards of living of all the muslim countries. However I suspect that you would not enjoy living there for very long because of the insidious influence that Islam has on the country.
Dubai? Sure, wonderful if you are one of the native sons who have to do none of the work. Absolutely horrible if you are one of the slaves that have to work there. Slavery? Yes. Absolutely. There are three classes of people in the modern, relatively liberal (as in freedom from onerous restrictions) Dubai. The locals (privileged with cradle to grave welfare for as long as the money lasts) followed by the Europeans who actually do most of the work managing the country followed lastly by the “darkies”. You know, South East Asians, Africans, and whoever else doesn’t match the first two groups. This latter group does almost all the work of needed to keep this city state doing and most of them are virtual slaves.
Well, I could go on but my examples would only get worse from here. The facts, I believe, are clear. Muslim countries often are not the nicest places to live. When I look around and see why this is so, the only thing I can see in common is repressive islam.
We can debate the rightness and wrongness of the Iraqi invasion all day and still not come to a satisfying conclusion, so I won’t argue for or against. What’s done is done. However, ask the general Iraqis (do you know any?) and you’ll find out that many are happy the Americans came. They removed a real monster and a real terror from their lives. Oh yes, the invasion caused other problems but compared to what they had? The Iraqis consider it a win.
Your comments on Russia after World War II are bizarre. I’m guessing you were born after 1980, so you’ve never lived with the spectre of World War III and almost certain nuclear annihilation. The facts are certain to those who lived those times, and confirmed by the opening up of the Russians own archives. The two remaining powers after World War II continued the cold war that started in the 1920′s. It was only the strength, and determination of the US and her allies that prevented the world from turning into a world wide communist state.
Can we agree that communism is bad? I mean 100 million people murdered in the twentieth century alone kinda bad?
Christianity has had a long list of sins. Christianity also has a long history of self correction. The Crusades are no longer happening (they were a response to islamic provocation and expansion by the way). The Inquisition (no one expects the Spanish Inquisition) no longer happens to this day. In my opinion, Christianity has at its heart a set of simple beliefs that encourage people to live in peace with each other. Oh, sure at times the corruption of man has twisted it into something vulgar, but that vulgarness is not in the religion itself. It is something brought in by corrupt and fallible humans and eventually taken back out.
Not so with Islam.
The two cannot be compared. Where Christianity has thrived, the people have lived better, safer, more secure lives. Where Islam has thrived, you will find the opposite. You seem to think differently. Very well, I’ll wait for your proof. In the meantime, Here’s mine. It’s a simple test.
(a) Go to any “extremely Christian” location. Stand in the middle of the road and shout, “I am no longer a Christian, I hate God, He doesn’t exist and you are all delusional”. Now sit back and watch the reactions. I’m sure you can find places where some people will get in your face, heck even physically roughed up a bit, but you’ll walk away from it.
(b) Go to any predominantly Muslim country. How about… Malaysia? Uh, no. Best not. They put people to death for doing the equivalent. Iran? No, death would be likely there too. Dubai? Possibly since you are likely to be of European descent and would likely spend only many years in jail.
Well, perhaps it is not such a good experiment to do because it is so dangerous. And yet doesn’t the fact that doing something like that is so dangerous on one side only tell you something about the effects of the two religions in general?
You seem to have the opinion that Western societies are places where the poorest people are doomed to lives of suffering, bad health, deprivation and various other ailments.
I find that a strange opinion to hold. I mean, let’s think about that for a moment. Name one country where the poorest people are fat. Besides the US and other Western countries I mean. The poorest people today in Western societies are so much richer and have access to so much food and other forms of wealth that it is to laugh to call them poor. Yes, they are poor in relation to other richer people in those societies, but take a step outside those countries.
Poor is living in a shanty without running water or plumbing. Poor is living in a garbage dump so you can pick out scraps to eat that will keep you alive for another day. Poor is when having a six pack means six of your ribs on either side of your chest stick out farther than any other part of your body. Poor is prostituting your body out for any amount of money because you have no other way to feed yourself. Poor is when you die because you don’t have access to any medicine whatsoever.
No one goes without medical care in America if they so choose. America is so wealthy and generous that no illegal immigrant goes without care either. In fact, their generosity is bankrupting the country because the demand for the free care is infinite.
So yes, you obviously know nothing about poverty. That is clear. And you are obviously unaware of how “rich” the poorest in Western societies are in comparison to just about every other country in the world.
One thing I’ve noticed about people who complain about how bad America is, is that they never, ever take notice that people are beating down the doors to come to the US. They throw themselves out into the ocean hoping to land on its shores. They agree to become virtual slaves to non Americans and be smuggled in shipping containers or unsafe boats just to have the chance to live in that country where the streets are paved with gold. They walk across the desert, risking death for a chance at something more than they could ever possibly have in the place they live.
Where are the Americans who are busting down the doors to get the hell out? *crickets chirping* Oh, one or two might but no other country complains about American immigrants flooding their shore. If America is so bad, why do people go there? Why do people stay? Why aren’t people escaping America like people are escaping their countries of birth to come to America?
Shouldn’t that tell you something?
Too many people in the West have had it too good for too long. They’ve forgotten the lessons and the hardships of their ancestors while living in their well insulated lives safe from the dangers of living a hundred years ago. Most never travel outside of their comfort zones and who’s idea of hardship is food served to them cold when it should have been served hot.
To them I say, “Travel the world”. See how most of the rest of the world lives before deciding how bad your own home is. Then go home again and thank whatever Deity you worship, or the laws of chance if you do not, that have given you the rare privilege to be born where you were born.
Western Society, Culture and Thought has given much to so many and the founding of America is the culmination of many of the best parts of all that. In historical terms it is an aberration that may not survive for much longer while the barbarians seek to tear it down from without and from within.
America has been a source of greatness in Western Society for the last 100 years at least. I cannot fathom how anyone can say otherwise.
(To anyone reading this far: I apologize for the stream of consciousness writing and the abuse of language I’m inflicting on you. Writing was never my strong point and I’ve never taken the time to improve. This is the most I’ve written in years)
I was waiting for you to take up your stalwart good sword, PD.
You are a valued treasure in my book.
*phew* That’s a lot to live up to Ma’am.
I may not succeed, but I’ll do my best.