My husband took issue with my latest post linking Roissy’s work. I wasn’t too surprised at his objection, but his opinion sounded a little off kilter considering he half seriously uttered the phrase “we should repeal women’s voting rights” just last week and backtracked on that bruising bon mot to “only property owners should vote” after I cocked a serious eyebrow in his direction.
After I defended my linkage and the offender’s overall thematics, I listened to my husband’s thoughts on the matter.
While he, in the main, agreed with Roissy’s post, he was disturbed by the man’s overall site, particularly his definition of top Alpha males as intentionally cruel, bad boys who’s only point in life is to get as much prime quality pussy as possible. He disliked his dismissal of Beta males and found many of his posts crude, sexist and offensive. He was also dismayed by my apparent endorsement of Roissy’s definition of Alpha males and concerned that horny freaks would come crawling out the woodwork because of the linkage. All solid points worth serious consideration because my husband is an Alpha male who would never in a million years behave as Roissy suggests real men should act if they don’t want to become some gorgeous woman’s doormat.
This lead to a beautifully winding post that got lost in a bevy of meaningless words. Two thousand keystrokes dumped trying to find a way to express some simple human truths. Let’s see if I can tighten this baby up.
Roissy’s absolutely right and fundamentally wrong. Explaining the disparities isn’t simple.
Shave the social veneer from our hides and the animal comes shining through. We live to procreate, our basic DNA demands we find the best partner to pass on the genetic lineage. This isn’t always a rational or well thought out process, it’s steered strong by intangible desires and, sometimes, acted on with rash heat. The emotional regrets of the higher brain come into play much later if we’ve mindlessly spilled our baby makers on shallow ground.
Here’s where the man is right.
Alpha males have always dominated the procreative food chain. Alpha females have always held an equal co-chair, if not the upper hand. Bad boy Alpha males ala Roissy now rule sexual mores in the younger set because significant numbers of Alpha females have devalued themselves into little more than free party favors. These young women have traded their treasures of beauty, dignity, intelligence and sex for social acceptance by a tribe of males who’ll never ask for their last names before pulling down those lace panties.
When these first tier ladies develop all of the ugly callouses such trade offs demand, they blame men for creating a worthless environment for serious relationships. I’m amazed that these women never reflect on their own behavior in creating this harsh reality. Men like sex. They’re sex driven by nature and the only civilizing force moderating their drive is women’s behavior and societal mores. Once women capitulate the high ground in favor of frequent lusty hook ups, men adapt to the new field accordingly. Why would he take you seriously when you don’t give yourself the same consideration? If we don’t believe in our essential tang, why should men?
Roissy can be incredibly crude. He’s undeniably sexist, but if his background story and current circumstances are to be believed, he has some basis for his stream of thought. I’ve heard his story more than once or twice: Fall in love with an intelligent, beautiful woman, marry her, get left in a heap of serious pain some years later when she leaves your ass for her latest lover. Pay alimony, child support, lose the house and half your savings. Watch your children get raised by stand-in dad number two or three. Hit the dating scene after you’ve collected your balls and self confidence from the gutter and discover that most of those pretty, smart women you find supremely attractive are busy obsessing over men who treat them like disposable dolls after dosing them up with a ripe case of herpes
Some men ratchet down their expectations, hitting the lower level end of the market for a responsible partner after that unpleasant experience. A few become Roissys.
Here’s the crux of where the Roissy went fundamentally wrong in his simplistic analysis, misplacing false dominance for true strength.
Others decide they’re actually worthwhile men who made a dumb mistake. These men don’t need the validation of pretty, prime pussy, refusing to lower their standards for the expediency of regular sex, fidelity or some rudimentary version of true happiness after the burn. They wait until a prime woman with brains, heart and principles comes along who wants the same qualities, unwilling to compromise any of the three for a short, thrilling ride on a hot Roissy rod. They choose fine women who want the deep end of the pool, that place where the sex is hot twelve years down the road and a meeting of the minds is still a high pleasure. These are the true alpha males; men who want quality in every area of their lives, not quantity. They have no desire to denigrate another living soul, heading into bastard mode is the last place they want to be on any given day.
My definition of an Alpha male is light years past that pale stub of manly virility Roissy passes off as reality. I value a body of substance, not casual cruelty, as the bearing of a real man. Men who command a room with confidence own a steady self assurance. Handsome good looks are a help, but spray on tans, bleached teeth and carved six packs are the currency of children. Mature alpha male have charisma and a quiet certitude, surface glitz plays a negligible role for men of stature. It’s how you carry yourself, exuding an intelligent capacity for wit and smart humor along with a genuine appreciation for good women, solid knowledge and refined skills is fundamental. The willingness to toss off honest, well honed opinions in the face of a contrary crowd is hugely attractive.
A dominant male deals with the world from a place of grounded integrity, he values himself and gladly values others who exhibit the same qualities of honest self appraisal. These men don’t cheat on their commitments or run out on their responsibilities. They aren’t cruel or dispassionate. They own empathy, but their second reaction is always how to fix the problem. Providing a solution is second nature to Alpha males. They don’t want to feel your pain, they want to alleviate it.
True alpha males walk the talk, make the mile, lift the load and carry the weight. They show up for life.
T’aint a tight muscle in this version either. Looseness reigns, but damn, it’s done.
Wow. What can I say. You really get it, and you’ve got it and I’m glad for you and me both.
Excellent job tackling a knotty, naughty subect rife with hazard. I had similar reservations about Roissy’s views.
I can understand how a man can devolve into a cynical testosterone-driven tool, but that is definitely not all there is to a man.
I hope Roissy is a young man and that something changes in his life – that he meets a good woman, I guess is what I mean. Kind of like hoping for a miracle, but I hate to see the most important relationship a person can have in their life with another person reduced to mere humping a stranger in a shower – however satisfying that may seem at the time.
Oh and…
Heh Heh Heh… you said t’aint.
Thanks, Teresa.
Roissy has always given me pause, but he’s on to something real and I’m not going to call him a fool.
Yeah, t’aint is all good. ;-)
Okay. Got it. Noted. Now get me a beer.
(Actually I hate beer. I can haf soder pop?)
No, Gerard, you get gravy.
And ass.
Excellent post. I have been following Roissy for more than a year now, often with pleasure, occasionally with unease, considering what of it I want to explain to my three young sons when they are a little older.
Reading your post made me realize that there are two aspects to ‘Roissy in DC’. Roissy himself as a man, who I agree is going over the top lately. But there is also Roissy as a teacher, and there is value in what he can teach young males about dating and how to approach women. I wish I had known those things when I was 18 or 20 or so, instead of having to find it out the hard way over many years.
My test for the validity and overall worth of a man’s opinions about women is this: Does he still believe the same things AFTER he has a daughter, and would he be happy to have other men apply his theories to his daughter?
True Alphas are reared to know, or can figure out for themselves, that no man is better than the treatment he gives the lowest-status people around him. Pretend Alphas think their “superior” status entitles them to condescend and to use.
For this reason, one of the fastest ways to identify true Alpha males is to see how their employees, wives and children talk about them when their backs are turned. Is there respect and gratitude, or mockery and fear?
It would be interesting to learn this about Roissey.
Oh, and I’d fetch Gerard his soder, or gravy, any day.
I went back to this ass clowns blog to see if I could figure out why anyone would give him a shred of credability in light of his views on women. I came away with the same opinion as the first time,…. douche bag. He draws alot of traffic from like minded morons and detractors. He writes for shock value, and I promise you the majority of his conquests are in his mind, absent of any reality. He goes on and on with his Alpha/beta shtick. He is about as much Alpha male as a typical school yard bully, it works on the weak, right up to the time someone pulls him up and checks his chin. I’d give him about 2 minutes on the street or in prison. He advocates putting his hands on women, claims that all women have a deep seated desire to be smacked around, “it makes em wet”. He lacks any real confidence or character. Respecting women makes you weak, treating them like a cum dump makes you strong, that is his rhetoric. Does he ever make valid points, sure he does, everyone gets it right sometimes. Last I checked, fingernail polish which is acrylic doesnt streak off on shower tile, and all women arent waiting with abated breath for some guy to come along and treat them poorly. Normally the stuff you link, even when the author has views that run contrary to my own, I come away with something, I learn something. In this case not so much. I can’t abide a bully, and thats what this guy advocates, at least in my eyes. He is weak and pathetic. But he draws traffic, I’ll give him that.
Daphne typed:
‘I’ve heard his story more than once or twice: Fall in love with an intelligent, beautiful woman, marry her, get left in a heap of serious pain some years later when she leaves your ass for her latest lover…wah, wah, wah.’
I’ve heard it over and over myself.
And I still don’t believe it. Things are always more complicated.
But that’s the lure of Roissy. A common thread on far too many blogs is abject self-pity. And Roissy has that in spades. His ‘truth’ is that he is an extremely unpleasant person with a barely formed, indeed pre-adolescent notion of how to function in society and in intimate relationships. His story will always be as the one above. It’s inevitable.
I dug back a bit and came up with this, the first known print appearance of ‘Roissy’. He actually is ‘Jake’.
Enjoy.
Penthouse Reader Never Thought This Would Happen To Him
JANUARY 21, 1998 | ISSUE 33•02
NEW YORK—In a startling, improbable turn of events, a reader of the popular men’s entertainment magazine Penthouse recently became involved in a real-life sex-fantasy scenario, the likes of which he had previously believed impossible for “an ordinary guy like me,” Forum sources reported Monday.
This Penthouse reader’s recent camping trip unexpectedly turned into a weekend of wild erotic abandon with three gorgeous, nymphomaniacal, bisexual sorority co-eds. His name and address have been withheld by request.
“I never thought anything like this would ever happen to me,” the surprised and delighted reader—whose name and address are being withheld at this time—told reporters at a press conference following publication of his tale in the February issue of Penthouse.
Penthouse
“Though I have read and enjoyed the letters in Penthouse’s Forum section for many years, I must admit that, until now, I had always thought they were made up. It just seemed too much of a stretch of credulity to believe that they are true, real-life tales of actual readers,” the man said. “But a recent experience caused me to put aside my skepticism.”
The man also noted that, although he had been a fan of the Penthouse Forum letters section for a long time, this was the first time he had ever written in himself.
Experts at the Penthouse Forum Anecdote-Veracity Verification Institute confirmed that the man’s account is authentic.
“By carefully examining such stories for hidden psychosocial inconsistencies, we are able, with an alarming degree of accuracy, to determine whether the erotic-exploit depictions we receive from around the world are true, or merely the product of the overactive imaginations of frustrated, sexually dissatisfied daydreamers,” Penthouse’s Dr. Emil Shank said. “Upon close examination of this most recent submission, we feel confident in stating that it is 100 percent authentic, despite how unbelievable the story may at first appear to non-experts.”
“And what a story it is!” Shank added. He then emitted a long, low whistle as a nonverbal indicator of just how sexually arousing the anonymous man’s experience was.
“Before I go any further, let me first describe myself and my friend and camping buddy, Jake,” the reader told reporters. “We are both in our mid-20s, and are extremely muscular and athletic, with tanned, sculpted bodies, luscious locks of blonde hair, and tight, shapely buns.”
The reader went on to state that both he and his friend Jake are extraordinarily well-endowed, with penis lengths of 10 and 12 inches, respectively, well above the national penis-length average of five and three-quarters inches.
“Now that you know what we look like,” the reader continued, “let me just say that when Jake and I decided to make plans for an ordinary weekend camping getaway, the last thing on our minds was the possibility of running into three gorgeous, nymphomaniacal, bi-sexual sorority co-eds, miles from civilization, surrounded by the primal wilderness of unspoiled nature, where our passions could reach untold heights far from the disapproving eyes of society.”
“But,” he clarified, “I’m getting ahead of myself.”
The unnamed reader then recounted how, while fishing, he and Jake were surprised to discover a young, unclothed woman bathing at the nearby shoreline, her breasts, buttocks and vagina in full view.
“Instead of shrieking off into the woods and covering herself, this woman, whom we later learned was named Kiki, invited us to row our canoe over to her and participate in sexual activity so explicit and erotic that we had previously only imagined it in our wildest dreams,” the man said.
Also surprising, the reader said, was the fact that, shortly thereafter, he and his friend were introduced to Kiki’s two roommates, Sandi and Michelle, who engaged in erotic abandon with them for the rest of the weekend.
The reader, pausing at intervals to dab his forehead with a small cloth, then offered an in-depth account of the many sex acts performed by the five consenting adults, including details regarding: whose genitals were being sucked, probed and stimulated by whom at what times; which women were chesty and which were petite; the color and shaved-or-unshaved status of the genital hair of each female participant; and the relative positions and frequency of orgasm experienced by each of the two-, three-, four- and five-person coital combinations which occurred over course of the 48-hour period.
Reporters present at the press conference agreed that the account was so erotic and sexually explicit that, if recounted in private, it would likely cause one to become aroused and even masturbate to orgasm.
“In short, let’s just say that Jake and I are looking forward to camping again real soon!” the reader said, concluding the press conference.
“Jake,” last name unknown, could not be reached for comment as of press time.
A common thread on far too many blogs is abject self-pity. And Roissy has that in spades.
When I see a blog explore issues that have to do with double-standards in divorce proceedings, criminal law, civil law, prosecution of “hate crimes,” hiring, promotions, college admissions, contract awards, I see someone standing up to oppose injustice on behalf of another who otherwise couldn’t effectively speak for himself. Let me guess: That all falls into your “self-pity” column right, Arthur?
Daphne, your husband is echoing exactly the thoughts I had when I read Rossi. This delineation between alpha and beta that is so crucial to the points he’s trying to make, receives only casual definition and you are right to expand on it. My own perception is it has to do with creating versus destroying. Back in the olden days we didn’t have quite so many things built so there wasn’t a lot of destroying to do; just being a lazy-ass would make a male a beta, and therefore a pariah amongst desirable chicks. The female eye gravitated quite sensibly toward the male specimens showing energy, spark, vigor, initiative. They were the builders.
Nowadays there is stuff to build and stuff to destroy; but the building requires design. Design is not fun to watch and it shows none of the movement of yesteryear’s building…it slows down to becoming a halting, jerky, self-second-guessing, contemplative slow-moving thing. Destruction on the other hand assumes the entertaining and sure-footed movement of Morgan’s Charismatic Wrecking Ball. And so if a young lady of desirable appearance but underpowered mind has failed to evolve, she will continue to seek out the men who move in a more appealing and constant pattern…which in these modern times, are the destroyers. Obama all by Himself is plenty enough to prove this to be true. Obama wrecking something, versus some nerd guy trying to put something together, something that will actually work. Who’s more fun to watch? It’s no contest!
So much fun to watch a wrecking ball sail on through a building. It’s fun because they’re really no mystery which object has the greater inertia, which one is going to win.
Watching the architect produce blueprint revision after blueprint revision, all necessary to putting that building up in the first place…that’s not fun to watch at all. All it seems the guy does is draw lines, erase, swear, and draw more lines.
The ladies are being stupid here, but no more stupid than society as a whole. We have become worshippers of destroyers, confusing our alphas with our betas…because we’re way too comfortable, we have too few survival-related things to think about, and we have too much stuff.
K-O. Totally smitten with Midtown Miscreant. Buy that man a drink!
Yours too Morgan.
You’ve got the ‘woe is us’, ‘oh, how far we’ve fallen’ thing down to a tee.
Cheers!
BTW Daphne I am trying out one of your recipes tonight :D
My take: I don’t do crude. Period. Life’s too damned short, especially at this stage of the game, to waste my time reading the views or experiences of those with who I’m in profound disagreement from a moral standpoint (politics being an entirely different can o’ worms). Your man Roissy seems to be that sort.
That said… your take on what makes the Alpha male seems pretty danged close to reality. Well said.
Who woulda thunk it? I might like your husband better than you. Smile. He has too much good sense to blog, I’m sure.
Did Bathsheba Everdene have a sister named Daphne?
Roissy’s fault lies in describing people by what they appear to be in relation to others versus what they do in relation to others.
The real world does not give a crap what you look like or what bar-fly women think of you, but Roissy seems to think it does.
He carefully draws a boundary into which effort, discipline, knowledge, experience, judgment, friendship and insight cannot cross and then claims that only those items in that circle matter.
Yet it is precisely those things he excludes that matter the most. The offal he holds up will only attract flies and very hungry ones at that. He describes a fly’s life.
We’re making Thomas Hardy references now? Sweet!
Just read my first few minutes of this Roissy. Hack. Howard Stern with a blog.
If you had to be provoked to give me that concise and descriptive understanding, that will work for me.
I’m not familiar with Roissy, but all these descriptions are reminding me of Tom Leykis, who advises his radio man-audience how to get laid without getting married or spending a lot of money, which he did four times before becoming an expert. He, also, can be funny and accurate in the very limiting way of the genre. Considering the lives and wits his callers are admitting too, he may be doing them a service.
For anything to be funny it must have some small content of truth; that’s the hook. But it’s still a joke.
I don’t know about Roissy.
In a world where beauty, male and female, endows the possessor with significant material advantages, folks like Roissy will pop up here and there, using inside knowledge and technique to chisel off a portion of the wealth.
Another example would be shady mortgage brokers and equity strippers.
But there is a nugget or two of wisdom in Roissy’s pile of tailings. It’s easy, these days, when we don’t depend on wit and strength for survival, for a man to get lazy and lose sight of what it means to be a man. Or, he may never have had to contemplate the ideas.
The trick of the gal is to spot the potential, and skillfully encourage and reward the positive traits. And just as many men have never thought about it, many women fall for the most obvious actions and fail to look deeper before they fall into the pit.
You’ve got the ‘woe is us’, ‘oh, how far we’ve fallen’ thing down to a tee.
Why yes, your ridicule has shown me the error of my ways. Everything’s ship-shape and running just swell. I was foolish to have ever doubted it.
Alinsky would be proud of you, Arthur.
Happy to help Morgan.
Buck up!
Daphne,
There’s only one part of your analysis that I disagree with but it’s a big one. You want to shoehorn what used to be called the “gentleman” into the “alpha male” category. I’d submit to you that the whole “alpha/beta” male distinction is the problem. These are biological categories and when you’re using them, you’re construing human sexual behavior in terms taken from the study of chimpanzees. And if you’re going to stay true to such a construction, it is a fact that alpha males don’t prefer quality over quantity – they are driven to spread their “seed” (this term must be uttered in the accent of the character Dale from King of the Hill) as far and wide as possible.
I’d submit that living in society doesn’t just bridle the natural passions, it transforms them utterly – or ought to. I, at least, see no line to be drawn between Mozart’s Requiem and the chirping of a cricket. In civilized society, everything is artifice, with the passions providing only heat for the engine, well or badly designed.
To challenge an instance, if, as you suggest, women are in somewise encouraging men to behave like beasts, what happened to the women to make them behave that way? Why do you think it didn’t happen to you?
Here is my suggestion. The poison (as it were) is not coming from women or men (or even, as Morgan seems to suggest, from the courts) but from the poets – writ large. That is, the problem is that a significant portion of both men and women cannot imagine what a truly transformational relationship – by which both of the pair become more than what they were orginally, carry through all trials and tribulations with a sizeable measure of delight, all this ending only in death – would look like.
Let’s take movies. When I think of “relationship” movies, for instance, I think of,
Titanic: The guy is good and liberating. And conveniently dies.
Terminator: What, not a relationship movie? I disgree. Anyway, ditto the first entry. (Note to self: find out what the hell is up with Cameron)
Cramer vs. Cramer: The movie that caused a generation of young males to exclaim “All this crap to sleep with Meryl Streep?”
Any Matthew Perry or Hugh Grant Movie: The origin of the phrase “beta male.”
Tender Mercies: An actual achievement. Seems to suggest how things might work out. But there’s still a dead husband in there somewhere.
My point: Go write us a novel. Tell us how it is.
Arthur tried that number over at my place. Didn’t work out too well since he has trouble reading and comprehending rules. He ended up driving off in a 1954 Blue Huff.
Not at all Gerard. Just waiting for you to post something of interest. Even then your habit of re-writing my remarks is kind of a drag. Your version is even more feeble than my own.
Your encouragement is touching but I think Morgan can handle it.
Why wouldn’t I put less effort into it?
Arthur, you do know that most people find you incredibly annoying, right?
You give me too much credit Daphne. Some people. Not mist people. Those who do gave the habit of making the most sweeping of generalizations and endless slurs and slanders about entire populations. And complain through the entire exercise.
‘Most people.’ ‘Have the habit’.
Sorry. Tiny screen. Big finger.
Wrong, it’s because you constantly say ugly things to people. It is possible to disagree and argue without being snarky and nasty.
You treat people who hold differing opinions with condescension and disrespect, Arthur.